Cheng Fan asked Mozi: "Sir, you say the sage-kings did not have music. But, anciently, when the feudal lords were tired of attending to government, they found recreation in music of bells and drums. When the ministers and gentlemen were tired of attending to office they found recreation in music of Yu and Se. And the farmers ploughed the fields in spring, weeded them in summer, reaped the harvest in autumn, and stored the grains in winter. Then they would enjoy music of jars and vases. Sir, you say the sage-kings did not have music. This would be comparing them to the horse placed under yoke and never released, and the bow drawn and never unstrung. Is this not impossible for the ordinary human being?"1. 夫子曰: : Inserted. 孫詒讓《墨子閒詁》2. 瓴 : Originally read: "聆". Corrected by 清畢沅《墨子注》3. 不 : Deleted. 吳毓江《墨子校注》
Mozi replied: In ancient times, Yao and Shun lived in huts and yet they made codes of propriety and composed music. Tang sent Jie to exile on the ocean and installed himself ruler of the empire. Having achieved success and without cause for anxiety, he added to the music of the former kings that of his own composition, called "The Salvation" and also instituted the "Jiuzhao." King Wu conquered the Yin dynasty and executed Zhou and installed himself ruler of the empire. Having achieved success and having no cause of anxiety, he added to the music of the former kings that of his own composition, called "Xiang." King Cheng of Zhou again added to the music of the former kings that of his own composition, named "Zouyu." The reign of King Cheng was not so good as that of King Wu, that of King Wu was not so good as that of Tang the Successful, and that of Tang the Successful was not so good as that of Yao and Shun. So, then, he who has the more elaborate music has the less efficient government. Judging from this, music is not anything to govern the empire with.1. 因先王之樂,又 : Inserted. 孫詒讓《墨子閒詁》2. 《護》,又脩 : Inserted. 孫詒讓《墨子閒詁》3. 王 : Originally read: "生". Corrected by 孫詒讓《墨子閒詁》4. 又自作樂, : Inserted. 孫詒讓《墨子閒詁》
Cheng Fan objected: "Sir, you have said the sage-kings did not have music. This shows they did. How then can you say the sage-kings did not have music?" Mozi said: The desire of the sage-kings was to cut down excesses. Eating is of course profitable, but it takes so little intelligence to eat when one is hungry that it may be said to be nil. Now the sage-kings had music, but it was so little that it may also be said to be nil.1. 智 : Originally read: "知". Corrected by 孫詒讓《墨子閒詁》